Art by Carlianne Tipsey
Being a working illustrator means wearing several different hats -- you have to be great at your craft, but you also need to know how to work with clients. How do you negotiate rates? How do you communicate with them and keep them happy? How do you best fight for your vision and your favorite concepts? And what do you do if you don’t get paid? Jake Parker, Lee White, and Will Terry discuss the answers to these questions and more, and offer their best take on a structure that every new illustrator should learn from and adapt when taking their first client jobs.
Note: We’ve done our best to provide relevant links to products mentioned in this podcast. We’re a participant in the Amazon Associates Program. SVSLearn and the 3 Point Perspective podcast are supported by qualifying purchases. Thank you for your patronage!
PRELUDE
This episode was recorded before the pandemic, in February, and doesn’t touch on current events but focuses on creativity as a hopeful escape from the things that are going on in the world.
If you have the extra time, consider spending some of it on leveling up your artistic abilities. Isaac Newton, during the plague, used that time to develop his theory of gravity as well as new theories and understandings of optics. Shakespeare wrote King Lear during his quarantine. Consider spending your time learning how to draw something you’ve never drawn before, perhaps turn off Netflix for the time being and spend a few hours a day working on improving your craft -- sometimes focusing on things you can do will help you feel better about this situation.
To help you guys out, SVSLearn.com is offering a free 30 day trial, the longest we have ever offered, especially for our podcast listeners. We have over 80+ courses. Sign up here:
Will also did an online live event on Facebook and SVSLearn, we have new live courses coming out soon, so now is the best time to join up.
Jake and Will mention their Kickstarter projects in this episode, Jake launched his a day before the COVID 19 situation started to get bad, the link is:
The pandemic has had a huge impact on the campaign compared to other ones Jake has done in the past. Will is postponing his for this reason.
This virus has probably affected you in some way, or at the very least it has dominated your conversations and thoughts. On the other end of the spectrum, you or your family members might be dealing with serious healthcare issues. To all of you, our hearts go out to you, and we hope for health, peace of mind, and success in your current and future endeavors.
Stay safe and stay home!
INTRO
Will’s Kickstarter is postponed, but keep an eye out for it eventually -- it’s a powerful self-mastery book for illustrators, both experienced and beginning, called What They Don’t Teach in Art School. It’s a practical, actionable guide to making a living and working on your dream projects. It’s finished and edited, 30,000 words, with sections on professional development, building your brand, working with agents, art directors, and editors, and all the other advice that Will has given throughout his career. With extra advice from 12+ other professional illustrators as well. It’s the book Will wanted when he (almost) graduated art school. This is the info he wanted but never could find. It’s not just making art -- it’s selling art. It’s the business side of art.
Lee is opening a commercial retail space that is an art gallery, made by and for artists. It favors illustrators and gives them way more money than traditional art galleries. There are 8 pods, rented to artists, and they keep all of the money. Will is renting a spot. It’s a reaction to the strictness of galleries, this is more of a permanent art show or art fair.
Jake has a Kickstarter HERE, for DRAWINGS V, his series of art books. This is the first one in a while. Jake took a break working on SkyHeart but he’s back working on DRAWINGS and has reconsidered his approach to the books. They used to be just raw scans from his sketchbooks, but the newest DRAWINGS has a comic in it, is divided into specific sections, and has a tutorial inside that teaches Jake’s sketching method. It’s a nice resource for artists to get inspiration, get ideas, and be entertained. Jake will probably keep making DRAWINGS books until he dies. He loves making books and loves buying art books. This is his contribution to the art book world and is a way for him to have a creative outlet with no oversight, just his own taste and wants in a book.
Jake’s DRAWINGS books sell fast at the start but then have a long tail of slow sales. If he did a box set, he would need to reprint DRAWINGS II and III and doesn’t want to invest thousands of dollars on something that doesn’t have a huge demand. He’s open to it but would rather do an omnibus of DRAWINGS I - IV, and V, VI, VII and VIII separately, which are the new format of DRAWINGS.
Jake has zero client work right now but his Kickstarter projects are paying him better, by the amount of work he puts in, than freelance work. There’s something really sexy about working for yourself. When Lee has zero client work, he makes way more work for himself. Jake just started his Patreon, and shifted from project based stuff (like SkyHeart) to just a general patreon for all Jake related projects, from YouTube content to character design. He even posts .PSD files that you can pick apart and look at. Jake has seen much greater support using his Patreon in this way as opposed to the project based format.
For several years, Jake had to live or die by client work. Now that he has his own projects, he is much happier.
FIRST CLIENT JOBS
What were your first client jobs?
Lee’s first job was an ad for a dentist -- a tooth holding a toothbrush, riding a motorcycle. There was no possible way for it to be good. Lee had sent out several postcards to New York to try and get illustration work and got a gig from National Geographic -- he was working on the tooth and the Nat Geo illustration at the same time.
Will jumped into editorial work straight out of college -- working for newspapers and obscure magazines, but also big magazines like Money and Psychology Today. He got some high profile jobs right at the start and then found that the bulk of the work was coming from obscure magazines, like Hospice Magazine. The circulation was limited but they paid pretty well - $6,000 to $8,000 per cover.
You go through different phases in your career, and one of them is the “I don’t care what I’m drawing” phase -- where you would rather get paid to draw than work as a cashier or something like that. However, the human spirit does not let you stay content doing basic work -- you do work like that for a year, and then you want to do something more. Will was doing a lot of illustrations of tiny business people with big objects, a trend in the 90s, started by Brad Holland. Will did the same style for cheaper. Will also did stock illustrations, which are no longer as big a thing.
Tangent: Jake found an illustrator’s portfolio online with a lot of concept design, and the illustrator offered any of the designs for sale for any project. This is a smart way to approach concept design. Jake was also contacted by Neil Blomkamp’s assistant, asking if they could purchase a design from him. Jake couldn’t sell it because it was for another project.
Jake’s early jobs were business card designs and websites and the like -- he did a lot of graphic design work early on because he wasn’t good enough of an illustrator to get illustration work at the start. Jake was doing the same thing -- I don’t care what I’m doing, I’m just getting paid to draw and that’s cool.
HOW DO YOU NAVIGATE YOUR FIRST JOBS?
1 . FIRST CONTACT
You don’t know how to negotiate, or what to ask, or what leverage you have. And how do you deliver a good product?
The first jobs you will get today are very different from the jobs Jake, Will and Lee would have gotten when they first started. Some types that are available:
T Shirts, pins, merch
Jewellery design
Podcast Illustrations
Independent or self publisher covers
Fanart commissions
Figurine or miniature design
Webapps -- concept art
Games (that need jewels?)
Logos for Startups/Mascots
So you get an email or a DM that asks you if you’re available or what your rate is. What do you say to that? (Quick plug: the answer to this question is in Will’s upcoming Kickstarter book! Keep your eyes peeled for it).
Will’s answer: You want information at this point. Information is power. You can’t negotiate from a place of ignorance, at least not well. You need to know:
Deadline
Timeframe
Scope -- is it even possible?
Complexity -- how much work are you going to do? One simple illustration? A wide scene? How many hours will it take for you to do? Will once did 70 simple illustrations for $10,000 -- the simplicity of the work made the project a really good payoff, even though it was 70 images. You can ask for an estimate on the complexity of the image they want.
Time -- how much of your time are you selling?
Will also has a whole section in his book on how to price your work and how to get the maximum amount out of them without feeling like a jerk. You want to know as much as possible and have questions ready to ask.
Lee’s list:
Details of the job -- how many, sizes, level of detail
Dates -- when is everything due, sketches, finals, etc.
Rights -- who owns the illustration, and what are the usage rights? Asking these questions makes you sound smart, not demanding. Your client knows all of these things.
Money -- how much will it pay and how will it pay.
If you don’t have these four things, don’t take the job. If they’re still working it out, let them get back to you when they know the details. If it’s a huge job, get something up front. For books, you get something up front, then you get paid after sketches, then when the job is done.
Lee had students who would take jobs on video games, with a hazy agreement on pay. Then they would get huge amounts of work -- 50 characters, 10 environments, and they never got paid. And then the company goes out of business or fails to launch.
Jake: Your response needs to be: what the timeline is, the scope, the needs of the client (specific needs, ie. format for deliverables, etc.), creative direction, and budget. If you ask the budget, a lot of the time they will ask what you charge. The best way to respond is to turn it back around and ask them what their budget is and see what you can do with that budget. They will either tell you what it is, or they will lowball you. You can then decide what you’re comfortable with giving them for that amount of money. “For this amount of money you are offering, I can realistically do half of what you are wanting. If you give me more time or more creative direction we could negotiate further with money”. It may take 3 or 4 emails to iron out the details. Ask for half upfront and the other half once it is delivered to protect yourself if they go under or don’t have the funds to pay you. Ask about NDAs and if you can put your work in your portfolio -- you want your work to generate more work.
2. FIRST ROUND OF DELIVERED WORK
What do you send them in the first email, with your sketches?
Tangent: Lee was working on a novel, and had negotiated for 24 illustrations. Lee liked the book so much he did 25 extra illustrations on top of that. Then a second book came out. He negotiated 24 illustrations again, and then had to consider if he was going to include an extra 25 again, and for free or not -- he had to go through some awkward negotiations in which he had to ask for more pay if they wanted the extra 50 illustrations. Scope can change, beware of project creep and having to renegotiate your terms as the project expands in scope.
What are you giving them for the first pass, do you send them finished work, a rough sketch, something else?
Will likes to send super rough sketches just for conceptual feedback, which saves him time in the long run. He tells his art director not to show the scribble sketches to the client, and just wants their feedback on the concept of the piece -- the art directors are usually very excited to get this because they don’t want him wasting time on moving in the wrong direction. This is NOT waiting until the sketch due date, this is a conversation you have with the art director BEFORE the sketch due date. Don’t be scared of doing this -- a lot of young illustrators are wary of showing their work early, but art directors love having these interactions. Lee even sends reference photos.
Client’s don’t like to be surprised, even if it’s a good surprise. Money and reputation are on the line. Jake makes sure that every image he sends is consistently named -- sketchpage1.jpg, sketchpage2.jpg, etc. He puts a letter or number next to every sketch so that he can reference them in emails. He also annotates them with his thoughts. This way it’s faster and easier for him to communicate with his client. Put your name, date, and contact info in the corner so that whoever gets the file (these images get passed around) can contact you.
Lee agrees, label each drawing -- and put it all in a PDF. That way all your drawings are in one file. The first page is Lee’s name, contact info, and logo. Then the next page is Option #1, with extensive notes and references to the original brief. Lee wants this all on the page so that they can have an easier time when discussing the work in their meeting. Some meetings happen with them printing out the PDF as well. Lee adding his reasoning to the image has led to him getting much fewer change orders. The tighter the presentation he makes, the looser his sketches can be.
After your initial emails, ask who will be approving everything -- that way, if they are presenting to a group, you can make that pitch deck. If it’s a smaller project for an individual then you can keep it simple.
Lee has gotten some extremely glowing reviews from clients because of the format of the pitch deck.
3. SECOND ROUND OF DELIVERED WORK
For subsequent rounds, Lee refines his work, and makes sure to make detailed notes on what he was asked to change, how he changed it, and the newest version, all side by side. That way, it’s easy for his clients to see what changes were made -- a lot of the time they don’t remember what they asked for, so this helps you look like more of a pro. If you make a template for this, it doesn’t take too much extra time.
How does Will deal with notes? He tries to understand why the change is asked for. Sometimes you agree, sometimes you are indifferent, and sometimes you really disagree. Sometimes the changes make the illustration a lot better, so it’s good to be open to that. Early on, Will used to take offense to change orders but has realized that being humble can lead to a better finished product. If you miss changes, it can frustrate your art director -- it wastes their time and can lead to less work. If you don’t like a change, make sure you both discuss it, and have a solution ready -- be solution oriented. When you make changes, you have to figure out how to love making them. Especially if it’s something you don’t want to do. If you approach it with a positive attitude, it helps a lot. If you hate the sketch you send, it will be a worse sketch overall, and if they approve it then you have to paint it and it will be a blight on your project. Never send a sketch you wouldn’t paint.
Lee makes notes on which covers he loves the most -- “This is my favorite and this is why”. Clients just want to be reassured and feel good about what they are doing, and when they can sense you are excited about a project, they like it more.
4. DELIVERING FINALS
How do you send final work? Jake uses Dropbox and always makes a client folder for them, with final images in the folder. It’s an easy way for him to stay organized and make sure that the client can access his files.
Will uses the free version of WeTransfer. Artists used to use FTP servers, aka File Transfer Protocol servers. It’s an outdated technology that was really insecure. You could poke through their entire filesystem and see what other art they were getting from other artists.
Dropbox is great because it’s seamless and it works perfectly (we aren’t sponsored by Dropbox!). It’s worth the amount of money you pay for it each month.
We aren’t sponsored by Zugu Case but Lee and Will use them!
5. THE LAST EMAIL
What do you ask in the final email?
Lee: Give me my money! He does ask for a PO and if they need an invoice -- sometimes they will, sometimes you need to fill out a W-9.
Structure:
Here’s the final deliverables, they are all in this folder. It was great working with you guys, thanks for hiring me. I would love to work with you again (You should say this if you want to keep working with them! It really works. Lee also lets them know what he’s interested in working on -- he pitches the sort of project he wants to work on.)
Keep it professional and polite, especially if you want to work with them. Don’t burn bridges, you never know what’s going on behind the scenes for the person you’re working with. They could be wonderful to work with under different circumstances, like if they were at a different company.
How do you broach the subject of payment? “Do you have anything else I need to fill out for you?”
How do you make an invoice? Lee uses Quickbooks Self-Employed, and recommends it for all illustrators. It calculates your quarterly tax payment, which makes it worthwhile all on its own. It has a great invoicing feature as well.
Will and Jake use Google Docs and export .PDF files. Don’t share links to your Google Docs because they can edit and change them. Title it with your name + the project, and your invoice number. If you need specifics, there are plenty of samples online -- just search for “sample invoice” and do a version of that. You need your contact info, the contact info of the people you are working with, and an invoice number, which makes them searchable. Always put a means on how to pay you, with an EIN or a mailing address or a Paypal address.
6. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU DON’T GET PAID?
So you’ve done everything above, and it has been months and the money hasn’t shown up. What do you do? How do you follow up?
Tangent: Put 30% of every paycheck into a tax account! Do not do anything else with that paycheck until you have it in your separate account. This is for USA residents. It stings a little bit, but as long as you know it’s coming, it doesn’t sting as much.
It’s awkward when you don’t get paid. It’s not the Art Director’s money, or whoever you’re working with. They’re not the ones screwing up with the payment. Don’t get mad at them. The best way to approach it is to be polite and calm and ask if they can give you the contact info of whoever needs to get the payment to you. They will either feel bad and do it for you or they will give you the info. They don’t like it when you don’t get paid, but they don’t have that much control over it.
If it’s a one on one situation, with one person or something like that, what do you do? Lee likes to email them and give them an out of some sort -- like, “Sorry, my email might have ended up in your spam folder” or “Just resending to make sure this went through”, something like that to let the client save face. Do this three or four times and keep a cool head before you start getting serious.
What do you do if it’s a self-publishing sort of gig and they don’t pay you at the end? This is why you get an upfront payment and incremental pay, because that way you don’t lose out on the whole job at the end. What do you do? You could suggest splitting it into multiple payments, but accepting a partial payment could be legally seen as a full payment. Make sure you send an addendum to your contract, or get it in writing that it’s a partial payment, otherwise you will likely lose in the court of law.
CONCLUSION
After all this, congrats on navigating your first job! Take what we’ve said today and apply it to your own situation, modify it where necessary, and make sure to use your own instincts and street smarts. This is a pretty good structure for your first few jobs.
One more thing: What happens when a client asks for too many rounds of revisions? How do you draw the line? It’s really tough because you can’t really anticipate all of these problems ahead of time and work them into your contract. If the client is being difficult or asking for too much, ie: they want you to start over with a different idea after two or three rounds of revisions, that’s called scope creep and it’s unacceptable. The way to deal with it is to say that you’re happy to change it but you will be sending a new contract. Or you could say “we’re bumping up against what I said I would be able to do for the amount that you’re paying”.
CONTRACTS
NOTE: The following should not be taken as legal advice, Jake, Lee, and Will are not lawyers. It is anecdotal and could be useful but if you find yourself in a serious situation regarding contracts or missed payments, consider seeking help from a professional.
If you’re just doing a commission for an individual or something like that, you can treat your email exchanges as the contract. It doesn’t have to be extremely meticulous if it’s work that would take you a day or so. If it’s work that would take you a month or so then you want a legitimate contract, and you want to go over it with your lawyer or someone you know who knows contracts.
PRICING AND ETHICAL GUIDELINES
This book has boilerplate contracts that are specific to the design industry, including sections on rights and other illustration specifics.
Can you write something up that outlines what you both agree to?
Jake has never had to take anyone to court before, and a lot of the time it’s not worth it. Jake tends to just use the work he made for his own purposes if that happens.
Lee has once taken a year to get paid. Every Friday for a year he would send an invoice. Eventually they paid him.
Jake has never not gotten paid. The worst situation he’s had: he was asked to color a comic book cover for someone, deferred other jobs in order to do it, and then the guy said he wasn’t interested in Jake’s work and decided to go in another direction. That was a lesson learned for Jake, and he now avoids working with that person.
Will once only got a half payment -- the company was going belly-up and that was the best they could do. He got $250 instead of $500. That’s the worst.
Sometimes you have to fight for your payment a bit, or track it down with HR. But most clients pay, and missing payments is relatively rare. If it does happen to you, you sometimes just have to move on with your life. Taking people to court costs way too much and ruins your life, it’s usually only worth it if it’s a huge job for a giant corporation. If you need to, take it to social media -- take it to Facebook or Instagram. Companies are petrified of negative social media press and getting cancelled. That’s the scorched earth option, the last resort, because you will never work with them again and it can look bad and deter other people from hiring you if you burn a client. It depends on how you do it, because some methods may work -- Will has seen artists asking one another about a specific client on Facebook, and many of them had not been paid, so it exposed them without feeling like an attack. This is super rare, though. You don’t want to post about a huge company complaining about a two weeks late payment.
SUMMARY
Gather information before you accept a job
Don’t be afraid to negotiate on budget
Always ask for partial upfront payment, and payment on delivery of sketches
Discuss things with your Art Director first to save time later on. Send your work in a PDF pitch deck to impress your clients
Try and fall in love with requested changes, and note them clearly when you send work back
Consider Dropbox or WeTransfer to send your deliverables -- make it easy on your client!
If you want to keep working with them, let them know! Send it in the final email along with an invoice
Keep a cool head when checking on late payments, and be wary of taking your client to court if they don’t pay. Sometimes you have to take it in stride
LINKS
Jake Parker: mrjakeparker.com. Instagram: @jakeparker, Youtube: JakeParker44
Will Terry: willterry.com. Instagram: @willterryart, Youtube: WillTerryArt
Lee White: leewhiteillustration.com. Instagram: @leewhiteillo
Alex Sugg: alexsugg.com
Aaron Painter: painterdraws.com. Instagram: @painterdraws
Daniel Tu: danieltu.co.
If you like this episode, please share it, subscribe, and let us know your thoughts or if you learned something new!
If you want to be a part of the discussion and have your voice heard, join us at forum.svslearn.com.